26 responses so far ↓

• 1 dogatemyfinances // Mar 18, 2009 at 9:16 am

  Whee! Hope you’re reading for some flaming!

  People like to pretend this just doesn’t exist, at least not for them. Or, maybe they just never heard of it because you’re supposed to just stew in silence.

• 2 feminist finance // Mar 18, 2009 at 9:46 am

  No flames here. I think you sound much more sane than the post you linked to. It’s one thing to say that what happened was not what you expected to happen and you were a little hurt but got over it because you realize it’s not that big a deal/it’s a cultural difference/whatever. It’s very different to insult the people you invited to your wedding by calling them names and attacking some perceived lack of class, and then blaming your mom (!) for your own bad behavior. That’s what seems to have brought down most of the heat over there–the sense of entitlement and abolute lack of self-awareness.

  I don’t have a problem with receiving “cheap” gifts. I do sort of have a problem with receiving thoughtless gifts (in that I think, “I would rather have not received anything than gotten this 2 sizes too large sweatshirt with your alma mater’s logo on it”) but I’m not insulted, I just wish I didn’t have to schlep it around or bother with inevitably taking it to Goodwill. In those cases I would prefer to have received no gift at all. But I am perfectly aware that that’s my issue, not theirs. Some very nice people are crappy gift givers, what are you gonna do?

  There were a number of people at our wedding who didn’t get us a gift, including really close friends who spent a lot of money just to get to our wedding. That was truly fine by me. The only no-gifters who raised my eyebrow was a couple who, when they got married, registered only for very expensive things and were really vocal about not wanting anyone to buy off-registry. That was not on. But again, it’s a case where entitlement is really off-putting.

• 3 Fabulously Broke // Mar 18, 2009 at 10:13 am

  I have no problem receiving cheap gifts. No gifts and no card at all is where I get peeved.

  Which brings up another question — how do I tell how much my plate cost? Because I want to give cash to my friends but I don’t want to give too little

• 4 paranoidasteroid // Mar 18, 2009 at 11:35 am

  I left a comment on her blog, and I guess I’ll kind of say the same thing here: yes, it’s natural & human to notice the gifts other people give. It’s normal to base your gifts off that amount & it’s normal to feel hurt if people blow off gifts.

  It’s NOT okay to rant about people covering the cost of their plate. There is no etiquette requirement for that. And given the fact that Dog always says she earns money that her relatives can’t even imagine, it’s tackier for her to bitch about a $20 gift card than her guests to not bring a gift at all.

  Like I said, I think it’s a normal reaction, but not one you should share with others. It’s not something you should be proud of.

• 5 LAL // Mar 18, 2009 at 11:42 am

  Dog, I’m ready for flames. Yes there was one gift or lack thereof that still rankles.

  Feminist Finance, I think it’s more the fact that he’s given gifts to other people’s weddings, and YET he couldn’t remember to give us something. Or even a card which burns up my DH. It’s plain thoughtlessness that you give NO gift to some friends and gifts to others you remember, KWIM?

  FB, you KNOW sort of how much people spend. Large city like Toronto, hotel, downtown, dinner, open bar, probably $50-75/head. Lunch, no bar, etc, less. Look at the hotel or restaurant and see what an average entree costs.

  Paranoid, part of it is a cultural aspect. That you are expected to give something culturally acceptable to “cover” the cost of your plate. I’ve never thought of not giving a gift when I got to wedding or at least a card.

• 6 Melissa // Mar 18, 2009 at 12:44 pm

  While there is never an excuse for not giving a gift, there’s also another persepective about gifts from the wedding party.

  I was in three weddings last summer, all three in a rural community in the midwest. VERY cheap wedding location (we’re talking $150 to rent the hall for the reception cheap). My dresses averaged $200. Each required a new pair of shoes – $35. Each bride required hair and makeup done – $75. Each wedding was located 180 miles away. Trips were made for dressing picking, fitting, shower, bachelorette party and wedding, which comes out to 1800 miles per wedding with a car getting 28 mpg and gas at $4 it was $260 in fuel. Each wedding cost me roughly $600 before gifts. Now keep in mind that there was a shower, bachelorette, and wedding gift for each bride.

  I apologize to any of my brides if they felt slighted that they only received $60 in gifts between each gift-giving occasion. The fact of the matter is that all of us were 21 yrs old, either in college or fresh out, and broke. None of the brides chose cost saving measures for us bridesmaids.

  I don’t apologize for “cheaping” out on my gifts. I feel that part of my gift was my presence and cash forked out to make this day one that they’ll remember for the rest of their lives. Also, I’ll reassure to everyone, that I didn’t complain a wink to my friends about the cost. I just sucked it up and dropped several grand to partake in the ceremonies. If they felt slighted by my gift to them, they really don’t have my apologies.

• 7 Meg from FruWiki // Mar 18, 2009 at 3:58 pm

  I think the plate thing is kinda silly except maybe as the mildest rule of thumb.

  Like FB asked, how do you know what your plate even cost? Maybe some people keep up on that, but I know I don’t! And I’d find it VERY tasteless if the family let the amount “slip”. I mean, come on! You invited me to be part of a wedding celebration, you made the arrangements, I probably spent a lot of time and money just to be there, and you’re going to hold the price of food over MY head?

  And it bothers me particularly because I know there are brides out there justifying weddings they can’t afford because they think it’s a good “investment”, i.e. they’re counting on getting back the costs and more with gifts! Personally, I think that’s a bit twisted!

  Wedding gifts should be based on: 1. your own budget, 2. how close you are to the couple, 3. how much you already spent to get to the wedding, and 4. what you think they may want or need.

  And a “cheap” gift can be a nice gift if it is thoughtful, like something homemade or a family heirloom that you pass on.

  Thoughtless gifts are a huge no-no, though. And not bringing any gift is kind of tacky even if you’re just an acquaintance — unless the couple insists that is fine. Personally, I’d rather get nothing than some Dollar Store knick knacks. But then I’ve always been a fan of cash in any amount

• 8 Abigail // Mar 18, 2009 at 6:52 pm

  Okay, I have to disagree — but POLITELY — about the plate thing. I’ve not been to many weddings, but I’ve never heard about that etiquette.

  Frankly, I don’t think I’ll ever buy into that. I’ll get my friends something from their registry, happily. But I think it’s silly to ask people to cover the cost of the plate.

  Food at weddings is ridiculously expensive. We were told about a “cheap” place that would get us to about $15/person. We were planning on inviting 100 people! Many of whom were probably going to flake out on us, but who we still wanted to invite.

  For this reason, I opted to make up platters: cold cuts, cheeses, crackers, veggies, fruit and rolls (with condiments so people could make sandwiches). It was affordable (we paid for it with MyPoints gift cards but it was around $150-175).

  It’s fine if you want to pay more for your food and have a real caterer. But I don’t think you should make your guests pay for your choices. (Same reason I think if you want expensive bridesmaids dresses, you pay for them!)

  I think it makes perfect sense to be disappointed or upset or downright annoyed by cheesy/cheap/nonexistent gifts. Which is why I didn’t get rankled at DogAteMyFinances. She ranted a bit, but she conceded that any gift is still a good thought, etc. Feelings are hard to “un” feel. It’s more about having the tact to not voice them to people. Like brides who bitch about getting four toasters and being miffed at the “cheap” gift. Yeah, it’s annoying that people didn’t check the registry, but they tried. And I do believe that you shouldn’t expect them to pay for their dinner through gifts. You’re celebrating. It’s a party. If you don’t want to pay for lots of people to eat, invite fewer people. It’s that simple.

• 9 LAL // Mar 18, 2009 at 6:55 pm

  Melissa, I paid for the tuxes, dresses, makeup, hair, etc. So I’m not entirely sure if my bridesmaids spent that much.

  And my wedding? Was a vacation for EVERYONE, except for me.

  And I’ve been in weddings where it’s been expensive and it sucks. I still gave a gift as a bridesmaid. It’s a nice thought. After the shower, bachelor party, etc.

  I haven’t heard personally Meg from any brides who had a wedding for the gifts…although I did meet one SOOO caught up in the planning, her husband cheated on her 6 months prior and the marriage was over in less than 3 weeks, right after they got back from the honeymoon!

  That is more common than you would think! Bridezillas suddenly the man was lost in the wedding planning, was off cheating. Sigh.

• 10 LAL // Mar 18, 2009 at 6:56 pm

  Abagail, please accept that it’s a cultural issue. It is a cultural practice I am pretty sure where Dog’s parents are from. Same with my parents and in-laws.

  It’s very common in some other societies in the world. NOT the US.

• 11 Kristy @ Master Your Card // Mar 18, 2009 at 6:57 pm

  I think the difference between your post and Dog’s is that she sort of came across as a little ungrateful. It may very well be a cultural thing – I’ve never heard of an etiquette requiring my gift to cover the plate, that seems like I’m paying to attend the wedding. If that’s the case, why have a dinner at all? Just have the ceremony, take the pictures and forgo the reception. Cheaper for everyone around. The reason people don’t do this is because it’s supposed to be about spending that special day with the people you care about. It’s not supposed to be about making a mental list of the poor gifts you received so you can blog about it. I think that’s where the heat is coming from on Dog’s side.

  But, I’ll tell you, after having spent close to $1000 on the wedding and bachelorette party, my friend isn’t getting anything more than a nice card. I feel I’ve done my duty and ponied up the cash for other stuff. In my opinion, that bachelorette party was quite a gift. So, I’m inclined to agree with Melissa here, if my friend finds my card to them as cheap, well they don’t really have my apologies. I’ve spent plenty on this wedding already, more than enough to cover my plate 10 times over, if that’s the cultural norm you want to go by.

• 12 Stacey // Mar 18, 2009 at 7:03 pm

  I just realized – our best man never gave us a wedding gift. But he did get us a card at least.

  My family is not very well off, andwe were more than happy that they were able to spend time with us on our special day. I don’t think any bridesmade gave more than $20 – but again, it’s about sharing a special moment with the person. And we were all recent college grads.

  My in-laws however… my MIL called me a week after the wedding, wanting to know how much cousin “Bob” gave. Why? Because she wanted to give his son that same amount back for a birthday gift. Bob couldn’t make it, he was busy, but he did send a nice card. No gift, and we weren’t expecting one. So my MIL went to her nephew’s birthday with no gift, not even a card. She did the same thing the next year. How is that acceptable in any culture?

  Since when is this about keeping score? I’m so glad that we opened our gifts at home, just the two of us. Gifts should be from the heart and received in the same manner. As a bride and groom, it is your decision to set a wedding budget – not the guests’ responsibility to pay the bill.

• 13 LAL // Mar 18, 2009 at 7:04 pm

  It’s a cultural thing trust me. In Japan, you are required to pay a minimum of $500 or $1000 depending on your age, salary, profession. Read this page if you don’t believe me. http://www.japanvisitor.com/index.php?cID=359&pID=1467

  I worked with MANY Japanese MDs who hated going to weddings because it was SOOOO expensive.

  Tradition dictates what you need to pay as an entrance fee to the wedding. Like Tokyo is way more expensive than say Shikoku because of cost of living.

  So you can see how it really is a cultural thing, and Japan is not alone. MOST asian cultures it’s expected you give a gift of the amount of your meal and then some. And this amount is in CASH.

  Also, it is expected you pony up big time as a bridesmaid, etc.

• 14 LAL // Mar 18, 2009 at 7:15 pm

  Stacey, I think my DH was hurt because he’s given gifts to other couples but not us. It was the lack of even a card, which I think hurt his feelings because I’m the type of person who always does at least a card.

• 15 Meg from FruWiki // Mar 18, 2009 at 7:21 pm

  Well to clarify, LAL, I didn’t mean that the brides were getting married just for the gifts. Rather, I meant that they spend more on the wedding because they think that by making it a bigger party that they’ll get more gifts and thus make money on the event. Those are the kind of brides who get really disappointed when they discover that people don’t bring enough to “cover their plate”!

  And yes, it is sad that a lot of couples don’t even make it to the wedding together. I can see how many grooms would feel like a 3rd wheel to the bride and her wedding plans! Even a bride who is willing to listen and compromise on wedding plans, may discover that her fiance could care less. So, it’s important to leave plenty of time for quality time not revolving around wedding plans.

• 16 LAL // Mar 18, 2009 at 7:32 pm

  Meg, sorry about that. But I do think some women get married for the sake of having a wedding. Not the gifts, but the day!

• 17 Meg from FruWiki // Mar 18, 2009 at 7:38 pm

  Oh definitely! Some people take “and they lived happily ever after” a bit too seriously!

• 19 Kristy // Mar 19, 2009 at 7:14 am

  While I see your point about the cultural issue, my guess is that not all of your guests are of the same culture. Maybe they have never heard of this rule about paying for your plate.

• 20 LAL // Mar 19, 2009 at 9:27 am

  Nope. I will say that I “rudely” had a MONEY BOX at my wedding. This is traditional and expected. My DH and I both had many older guests who gave us cash envelopes. Tradition dictated a money box.

  Culturally I felt weird because we did have friends who probably wondered what the heck. But BOTH our families it’s traditional to have a money box. My mom actually bought it and my MIL thought it was pretty.

  So culturally, I felt awkward, but it was just easier to go along with it. My mom did realize it’s not American to have a money box, but it’s what they are used to.

  So sometimes you go along with the flow. And the friend who didn’t give a gift? Culturally/religiously he should definitely have given us something pretty nice. If his mom knew she’d have smacked him hard.

  And no he wasn’t paying off any debt. In fact he blows a lot of money on entertainment.

• 21 JoeP // Mar 19, 2009 at 1:24 pm

  I think it is unfortunate that a wedding gift has somehow become a requirement for guests. I can understand that some married couples are just starting out and their first couple years of marriage would be a lot easier if they had a nice dish set or a gas grill, but those are mostly frivolous when it comes down to it, since most married couple have enough duplicate “stuff” to get by.

  We got a freaking cappuccino machine because when we went to the gift registry store, we ran out of practical items we *actually needed* and specified unnecessary things. I felt like I was being unfair to our guests by asking for it, but since it was expected, we followed through with the request.

  And regarding duplication between bride and groom, much of the stuff can be donated or sold. The tax benefits alone would be arguably more beneficial in the first year.

• 22 CentsInTheCity // Mar 19, 2009 at 3:41 pm

  Celebration can be expensive, but if you can’t afford it, what’s so wrong with at least giving something small and thoughtful? I feel that giving nothing is a bit rude.

  I am not married, but I have gone to quite a few weddings. I have spent more than I like to think about on transportation and lodging. I have also enjoyed some wonderful, obviously expensive parties. I always gave a gift and tried to make sure it would cover the cost of my plate…even if I was in the wedding, had given an engagement gift, and given a shower gift.

  I never give anything that is not cash, gift card, or on the registry. I wouldn’t want to give something the couple doesn’t need/want. Most couples will have smaller items on their registry, so even if you can’t afford much you can get them something that they asked for. Sometimes you can get away with saving money by ordering online and using bonus points or sales.

  When I do get married, if someone whose wedding I attended and gifted up did not even give a token of celebration, I’d be upset. If someone didn’t give anything and later had a wedding or baby shower or something similar, I would probably give them something small, because I still can’t imagine not giving anything.

  It’s kind of like the episode of Sex and the City where Carrie is told to take her Manolos off at a friend’s baby shower and they get stolen. Over the years, she’s spent thousands of dollars on celebrating her friend’s milestones; meanwhile her friend inconsiderately does not want replace the shoes that she made Carrie remove. Her friend had no problem accepting gifts, but when it was her turn to respond she didn’t want to give anything.

• 23 LAL // Mar 19, 2009 at 7:48 pm

  Maybe that’s why JoeP some cultures the gift is $$$. That is always used. But it’s crass right? It really is crass to ask for cash, but I wonder why some cultures it’s expected.

  Cents, I thought that SATC Carrie’s shoe problem was awesome. I would totally have been embarrassed if that happened to a guest at my home. And I would have replaced them.

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