Comments on: Is the middle class gone? http://www.livingalmostlarge.com/2008/10/15/is-the-middle-class-gone/ Trying to live large ...one step at a time Thu, 18 Mar 2010 14:57:04 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: LivingAlmostLarge http://www.livingalmostlarge.com/2008/10/15/is-the-middle-class-gone/comment-page-1/#comment-3768 LivingAlmostLarge Tue, 21 Oct 2008 20:14:57 +0000 http://www.livingalmostlarge.com/?p=2045#comment-3768 I think that spending is still a personal choice. And it shouldn't be looked down on. Because the measure of happiness can't be measured between people! I love, love, love my Dogs. $2k for medical bills on them is outrageous to some and they would say put the dog down. My take is as long as the dog isn't suffering I'm not going to put them down for monetary reasons. I think that spending is still a personal choice. And it shouldn’t be looked down on. Because the measure of happiness can’t be measured between people!

I love, love, love my Dogs. $2k for medical bills on them is outrageous to some and they would say put the dog down. My take is as long as the dog isn’t suffering I’m not going to put them down for monetary reasons.

]]> By: C http://www.livingalmostlarge.com/2008/10/15/is-the-middle-class-gone/comment-page-1/#comment-3759 C Fri, 17 Oct 2008 03:20:56 +0000 http://www.livingalmostlarge.com/?p=2045#comment-3759 fengshui- it is great that you are doing all you can to learn. better late than never is definitely true. one of my biggest regrets is not saving when i started a part time job when i was 16. i spent carelessly in college as well. (it didn't help that my roommate for two years and one of my best friends comes from one of the wealthiest families in the world.) i never saved until i started working full-time, and while i saved a good chunk of my salary for the first couple years (20-25%), i knew i was still being extravagant especially in the area of clothing. at minimum, i think i was spending about $6-8k/year. (i'm ashamed of it really.) now that i've started tracking expenses just a few months ago, i don't even want to shop anymore. it's become something like a game, trying to hit all my budget numbers. it's definitely harder to control spending when your friends do not. i like nice things too, and i'll admit to spending $50 on sunscreen and $500 on a jacket, but i think the most important part is to budget. it's not necessarily "wrong" to spend that much on things. you just have to make sure it fits in your budget. spend more in some areas that are more important to you, spend less in others that are not so important. anyway, best of luck with your personal finance journey. fengshui- it is great that you are doing all you can to learn. better late than never is definitely true. one of my biggest regrets is not saving when i started a part time job when i was 16. i spent carelessly in college as well. (it didn’t help that my roommate for two years and one of my best friends comes from one of the wealthiest families in the world.) i never saved until i started working full-time, and while i saved a good chunk of my salary for the first couple years (20-25%), i knew i was still being extravagant especially in the area of clothing. at minimum, i think i was spending about $6-8k/year. (i’m ashamed of it really.) now that i’ve started tracking expenses just a few months ago, i don’t even want to shop anymore. it’s become something like a game, trying to hit all my budget numbers. it’s definitely harder to control spending when your friends do not. i like nice things too, and i’ll admit to spending $50 on sunscreen and $500 on a jacket, but i think the most important part is to budget. it’s not necessarily “wrong” to spend that much on things. you just have to make sure it fits in your budget. spend more in some areas that are more important to you, spend less in others that are not so important. anyway, best of luck with your personal finance journey.

]]> By: Blackbeards' Wyfe http://www.livingalmostlarge.com/2008/10/15/is-the-middle-class-gone/comment-page-1/#comment-3758 Blackbeards' Wyfe Fri, 17 Oct 2008 02:50:26 +0000 http://www.livingalmostlarge.com/?p=2045#comment-3758 Interesting comments here!! I think the meaning of middle class has evolved from solid financial security to almost financial security. Your "middle - class" income bracket is definitely dependent on where you live. 32K used to be a livable income in our area. Now you need double that to get a mortgage to afford 1000 square feet of house. The reality is that our government will do everything in it's power to maintain the middle class. It's where the bulk of the money is and a large part of our country's political stability. Interesting comments here!!
I think the meaning of middle class has evolved from solid financial security to almost financial security. Your “middle – class” income bracket is definitely dependent on where you live. 32K used to be a livable income in our area. Now you need double that to get a mortgage to afford 1000 square feet of house.

The reality is that our government will do everything in it’s power to maintain the middle class. It’s where the bulk of the money is and a large part of our country’s political stability.

]]> By: LivingAlmostLarge http://www.livingalmostlarge.com/2008/10/15/is-the-middle-class-gone/comment-page-1/#comment-3767 LivingAlmostLarge Thu, 16 Oct 2008 18:00:06 +0000 http://www.livingalmostlarge.com/?p=2045#comment-3767 Personally having lived my 20s in a HCOLA i'd rather be living in a LCOLA making less! But it is what it is. I think moving will be in the cards in the future. And Kristy, I'm with you about being in the boat of having to have lived and bought condos/townhouses and wishing desperately for a home. I would love to have bought a house for $350k.I would DIE! Not going to happen, but it's fine. I don't "need" it but I do "Want" it. And after sacrificing now, it'll come. By the way fengshui, I think many people have their 20s being stupid, not just in finances but in love too boot. And being stupid in love can make you stupid in finances. I believe in a few days I'll have a story about me, money, and my stupidity. A very big stupidity. Ah well. Youth! Personally having lived my 20s in a HCOLA i’d rather be living in a LCOLA making less! But it is what it is. I think moving will be in the cards in the future.

And Kristy, I’m with you about being in the boat of having to have lived and bought condos/townhouses and wishing desperately for a home. I would love to have bought a house for $350k.I would DIE!

Not going to happen, but it’s fine. I don’t “need” it but I do “Want” it. And after sacrificing now, it’ll come.

By the way fengshui, I think many people have their 20s being stupid, not just in finances but in love too boot. And being stupid in love can make you stupid in finances.

I believe in a few days I’ll have a story about me, money, and my stupidity. A very big stupidity. Ah well. Youth!

]]> By: Meg http://www.livingalmostlarge.com/2008/10/15/is-the-middle-class-gone/comment-page-1/#comment-3776 Meg Thu, 16 Oct 2008 15:46:19 +0000 http://www.livingalmostlarge.com/?p=2045#comment-3776 If the definition of middle class is based on purchasing power - i.e. being able to afford food, clothing, shelter, transportation, decent school, and still manage to save - then the majority of Americans (even those "in poverty") can be considered middle class. Of course that depends on where you live. But most people have the option of moving, too...where I'm from in Alabama most people/couples make well below "median" household incomes of $50K. But stuff is cheap in Alabama (including taxes and especially housing), and most people live comfortably, save for retirement, travel, own cars, and do all the other things listed above. So they make much less but live much better than the average "middle class" person. Sounds good to me. Income only matters to the extent that it can buy you what you need/want. I'd rather be making $50K in suburban Alabama than $200K in New York City. If the definition of middle class is based on purchasing power – i.e. being able to afford food, clothing, shelter, transportation, decent school, and still manage to save – then the majority of Americans (even those “in poverty”) can be considered middle class.

Of course that depends on where you live. But most people have the option of moving, too…where I’m from in Alabama most people/couples make well below “median” household incomes of $50K. But stuff is cheap in Alabama (including taxes and especially housing), and most people live comfortably, save for retirement, travel, own cars, and do all the other things listed above.

So they make much less but live much better than the average “middle class” person. Sounds good to me. Income only matters to the extent that it can buy you what you need/want. I’d rather be making $50K in suburban Alabama than $200K in New York City.

]]> By: fengshui http://www.livingalmostlarge.com/2008/10/15/is-the-middle-class-gone/comment-page-1/#comment-3775 fengshui Thu, 16 Oct 2008 14:35:50 +0000 http://www.livingalmostlarge.com/?p=2045#comment-3775 "i think the state of our society as a whole has an inflated view of what it means to live comfortably. that’s what’s contributing to the 0% savings rate. just to give an example, my roommate buys starbucks every single day, and she practically lives paycheck to paycheck. expensive coffee is considered a necessity, among other frivolous things." You are not being critical, you are totally right. I agree with you 100%. While I don't buy starbucks, I do buy things that other people would consider unecessary, like toys for my pets, candles, anti-wrinkle creams, etc. And I don't go overboard, but I bet most of you wouldn't spend $80 on a jar of face cream or $30 for a bottle of foundation. I will allow myself little luxuries, but I don't go overboard. Compared to many of my friends, who will think nothing of spending $400 on a pair of heels, or $500 for a purse. I'd like to think that I'm making smarter choices about money as I get older and smarter, but I have a way to go yet..... Like I said before, hubby and I spend way too much on "going out". If I added it up over the last month, between the two of us (especially during football season), I shudder to think what we've spent, probably $500 in the last month. We've gone to a few football games, out to the bars, out to eat several times, etc. We are having FUN, which is important, but we could be saving so much more. We'll settle down when we have a baby ;-) “i think the state of our society as a whole has an inflated view of what it means to live comfortably. that’s what’s contributing to the 0% savings rate. just to give an example, my roommate buys starbucks every single day, and she practically lives paycheck to paycheck. expensive coffee is considered a necessity, among other frivolous things.”

You are not being critical, you are totally right. I agree with you 100%. While I don’t buy starbucks, I do buy things that other people would consider unecessary, like toys for my pets, candles, anti-wrinkle creams, etc. And I don’t go overboard, but I bet most of you wouldn’t spend $80 on a jar of face cream or $30 for a bottle of foundation. I will allow myself little luxuries, but I don’t go overboard. Compared to many of my friends, who will think nothing of spending $400 on a pair of heels, or $500 for a purse. I’d like to think that I’m making smarter choices about money as I get older and smarter, but I have a way to go yet…..

Like I said before, hubby and I spend way too much on “going out”. If I added it up over the last month, between the two of us (especially during football season), I shudder to think what we’ve spent, probably $500 in the last month. We’ve gone to a few football games, out to the bars, out to eat several times, etc. We are having FUN, which is important, but we could be saving so much more. We’ll settle down when we have a baby ;-)

]]> By: fengshui http://www.livingalmostlarge.com/2008/10/15/is-the-middle-class-gone/comment-page-1/#comment-3774 fengshui Thu, 16 Oct 2008 14:20:26 +0000 http://www.livingalmostlarge.com/?p=2045#comment-3774 Also, just to add, I'm aggressively paying off the last of my "college" credit card debt (about $6k). I've managed to pay off about $30k in cc debt over the past 7 years. I used cc's a lot while in college, for school related expenses like books, supplies, computer, clothes, rent (sometimes), personal care items, and also for unecessary items like bar tabs (so bad, I know), and travel. I also had a nasty emotional shopping habit, which I feel that I have overcome. ;-) I paid the price for it..... I also have learned a WEALTH of information lately from smart people like LAL and others that are on these blogs. My hubby and I have only been making this much for about 2 years, so between paying off my old cc bills and being new homeowners (we have remodeled and paid cash for everything) we have felt "not rich", if that makes sense. Now that things are settling down, our plans are to save more aggressively, to make up for "lost time". I feel like a broken record, but I spent the bulk of my 20's in college, so I wasn't out in the work force earning cash and putting away for retirment all through my 20's like most people. My hubby played semi-pro football and traveled for several years and didn't earn much money, so he is starting out late too. He is in school as well, but only PT. Better late than never ;-) Also, just to add, I’m aggressively paying off the last of my “college” credit card debt (about $6k). I’ve managed to pay off about $30k in cc debt over the past 7 years. I used cc’s a lot while in college, for school related expenses like books, supplies, computer, clothes, rent (sometimes), personal care items, and also for unecessary items like bar tabs (so bad, I know), and travel. I also had a nasty emotional shopping habit, which I feel that I have overcome. ;-) I paid the price for it….. I also have learned a WEALTH of information lately from smart people like LAL and others that are on these blogs.

My hubby and I have only been making this much for about 2 years, so between paying off my old cc bills and being new homeowners (we have remodeled and paid cash for everything) we have felt “not rich”, if that makes sense. Now that things are settling down, our plans are to save more aggressively, to make up for “lost time”.

I feel like a broken record, but I spent the bulk of my 20’s in college, so I wasn’t out in the work force earning cash and putting away for retirment all through my 20’s like most people. My hubby played semi-pro football and traveled for several years and didn’t earn much money, so he is starting out late too. He is in school as well, but only PT. Better late than never ;-)

]]> By: fengshui http://www.livingalmostlarge.com/2008/10/15/is-the-middle-class-gone/comment-page-1/#comment-3766 fengshui Thu, 16 Oct 2008 14:04:00 +0000 http://www.livingalmostlarge.com/?p=2045#comment-3766 "fengshui- i suggest that you start tracking expenses. it’s amazing how quickly the little things can add up. it seems a little out of whack for a $140k couple to feel cash strapped if they’re living below their means and in an area with an average house price of $275k" We don't feel "strapped" per say, we buy everything we need without having to budget, but we don't have 2 new cars and vacation every year like I would think we could. (just examples) We don't make $140k yet, until May when I start working FT again (when I'm done w/ school), we make $110k currently, pre tax, pre 457 contribution. “fengshui- i suggest that you start tracking expenses. it’s amazing how quickly the little things can add up. it seems a little out of whack for a $140k couple to feel cash strapped if they’re living below their means and in an area with an average house price of $275k”

We don’t feel “strapped” per say, we buy everything we need without having to budget, but we don’t have 2 new cars and vacation every year like I would think we could. (just examples) We don’t make $140k yet, until May when I start working FT again (when I’m done w/ school), we make $110k currently, pre tax, pre 457 contribution.

]]> By: Kristy http://www.livingalmostlarge.com/2008/10/15/is-the-middle-class-gone/comment-page-1/#comment-3764 Kristy Thu, 16 Oct 2008 10:28:02 +0000 http://www.livingalmostlarge.com/?p=2045#comment-3764 Middle class is definitely a matter of perspective. I live on the east coast, about 15 minutes from the ocean and the average price for a home here is around $350,000. Honestly, I think its about time, we as Americans have to sacrifice to buy a home. People our parents generation had multiple kids and lived in a 3 bedroom house, after saving for many years to buy a home. Now everyone thinks they are "entitled" to a home directly out of college. What is wrong with spending 5-10 years living frugally and saving money for a downpayment? DH and I bought a 2 bedroom condo and lived there for 2 years. Due to the appreciation in the real estate market, we were able to upgrade, however, it would not have bothered either one of us to start having children there and save money for a downpayment. That was what we were doing to begin with. Our country is full of people who think the deserve to have everything handed to them. This crisis is going to cause many people to cut back and finally start saving for the things that they want to buy. Middle class is definitely a matter of perspective. I live on the east coast, about 15 minutes from the ocean and the average price for a home here is around $350,000.

Honestly, I think its about time, we as Americans have to sacrifice to buy a home. People our parents generation had multiple kids and lived in a 3 bedroom house, after saving for many years to buy a home. Now everyone thinks they are “entitled” to a home directly out of college. What is wrong with spending 5-10 years living frugally and saving money for a downpayment?

DH and I bought a 2 bedroom condo and lived there for 2 years. Due to the appreciation in the real estate market, we were able to upgrade, however, it would not have bothered either one of us to start having children there and save money for a downpayment. That was what we were doing to begin with. Our country is full of people who think the deserve to have everything handed to them. This crisis is going to cause many people to cut back and finally start saving for the things that they want to buy.

]]> By: C http://www.livingalmostlarge.com/2008/10/15/is-the-middle-class-gone/comment-page-1/#comment-3765 C Thu, 16 Oct 2008 09:22:29 +0000 http://www.livingalmostlarge.com/?p=2045#comment-3765 fengshui- i suggest that you start tracking expenses. it's amazing how quickly the little things can add up. it seems a little out of whack for a $140k couple to feel cash strapped if they're living below their means and in an area with an average house price of $275k. if you were living in a $600k area, i could maybe sympathize. the average house price in my area is about $250k. i make about a third of that. if i stay on track, i'll manage to save $150k over 6-7 years. i'm frugal with most things, but i also buy organic whenever i can, and i travel fairly often. i probably also spend too much on clothing. my point is, it's amazing to me that you feel like you can't save more without moving in with your parents, when it's actually incredibly do-able considering the numbers. i think the state of our society as a whole has an inflated view of what it means to live comfortably. that's what's contributing to the 0% savings rate. just to give an example, my roommate buys starbucks every single day, and she practically lives paycheck to paycheck. expensive coffee is considered a necessity, among other frivolous things. sorry for the critical post, but i just don't get other people sometimes when it comes to personal finance... fengshui- i suggest that you start tracking expenses. it’s amazing how quickly the little things can add up. it seems a little out of whack for a $140k couple to feel cash strapped if they’re living below their means and in an area with an average house price of $275k. if you were living in a $600k area, i could maybe sympathize.

the average house price in my area is about $250k. i make about a third of that. if i stay on track, i’ll manage to save $150k over 6-7 years. i’m frugal with most things, but i also buy organic whenever i can, and i travel fairly often. i probably also spend too much on clothing. my point is, it’s amazing to me that you feel like you can’t save more without moving in with your parents, when it’s actually incredibly do-able considering the numbers.

i think the state of our society as a whole has an inflated view of what it means to live comfortably. that’s what’s contributing to the 0% savings rate. just to give an example, my roommate buys starbucks every single day, and she practically lives paycheck to paycheck. expensive coffee is considered a necessity, among other frivolous things.

sorry for the critical post, but i just don’t get other people sometimes when it comes to personal finance…

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