The problem is that they are “abusing” the ER because they are unable to get appointments with primary care physicians. Want to talk about waste and a broken system?

This new article reports a study conducted by UCSF on ER visits.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6WB0-4S8TR7D-2&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=e1add283aeae10d17da67f14369d1b5c

You want government bureacracy? Go sit in the INS office and see what it’s like to be there.

I think the problem also lies with the fact you are assuming all these people at SS office are not working. I guess if you saw me or my DH you’d assume that and I walked into the office no car at the time. So I’d look like a worthless person who isn’t working.

But is it fair to “Assume” that? Is is right to judge based on looks (and my DH and I look really young, we’re still carded for alcohol everywhere)?

I think right now you are mad about your treatment at the US healthcare. But trying being someone who works hard but makes a lot less? Who works 40 hours a week and doesn’t have insurance?

All you see is what you perceive to be people who are taking handout. People you assume aren’t working and are lazy. But do you really know the whole situation?

I know a commenter on here has a sibling with schizophrenia. Can’t hold down a job, must take medication, and is trying. I feel sympathy because it sounds like my sister’s SIL, except with down’s syndrome.

Not everyone you see is lazy and unmotivated. I think your attitude rather harsh and judgemental.

I wonder if people making $40k and struggling to make ends meet would feel to much harshness?

After my wife was diagnosed we waited the 6 months and applied for Social Security benefits. You want an eye opened to the evils of socialism take a day off and go hang out at your local SS office. There you will get to see all of the stereotypes right in front of your face. I work hard and make over 100K but I easily had the worst car in the parking lot and I was the only one with a job! Well of course we were denied. We never re-applied because frankly I want nothing to do with the system anymore. It really made me realize that no matter how hard I or my wife work the government is just going to take it to help the “less fortunate”.

The old fable about the ant and the grasshopper is coming true except this time the grasshoppers have the full backing of the Federal government. So at this point in my life if the less fortunate can’t eat or get health care I really don’t care. Harsh, yes but no one ever said life is fair.

I know that with money in the US you get a lot better treatment. A friend of mine got herpacin C monoclonal antibody treatment. It’s not covered by her insurance and she OOP. It’s not standard of care, thus she had to foot the bill.

Does it make it fair that she could but someone else who made less than she does (she was making mid 6 figures at 32), should not get the same level of care?

Like she said, she has the best doctors and best medical treatments because she could afford it. She hired the best surgeon and paid whatever insurance wouldn’t cover.

She had her radiation and chemotherapy done by the best. Because of her work, one of our graduate student friends works at the FDA doing approvals. She talked to her about the most cutting edge research and who to go and what it would cost. She was willing to fork over mucho dollars.

But not everyone can afford it, nor have the same contacts.

Of course the US spends more than every other country on healthcare. So it’s not free. We’d pay less with a socialized system because of the costs we pay with our free market system.

But part of it is many americans doesn’t trust the government to help them out.

And a major thing your forgetting. About 70 years ago before WWII, healthcare was truly free market. Meaning if you could afford care you get it.

We are proposing going back to that system. So soon if you have money and can afford treatment you will be seen. If you can’t tough.

You will be hooked up to die if you happen to born poor. The truly free market healthcare is going to be impossible. We’ve moved towards it in retirement plans with 401k, be responsible for ourselves. It’s not working out so well.

But with healthcare? Sounds good now, but what happens when people realize that they can’t afford what they “expect” to be able to afford?

Then the screaming will be louder than socialists. Socialists at that point will afford more than who have to pay OOP.

Lots of readers on here comment on personal responsibility. Well lack of it already, I can’t imagine a free market healthcare. There will be hell to pay when you tell people they can’t afford the newest cancer treatments!

They’ll blame everyone but themselves. And suddenly question the same system they once proposed.

I am 100% against any form of socialized health care. All this form of health care does is destroy any form of innovation. Spend some time on the Cancer boards where the Europeans are screaming for the advanced Cancer drugs available here in the US and you will see the true problems associated with socialized health care. If my wife had lived in Europe or Canada she would of been hooked straight up to a morphine drip and left to die up on diagnosis. Instead she was treated by the best in the world at Memorial Sloan Kettering where ironically enough all the Europeans with money end up when they get the Big C. My wife lived 14 months from when the Cancer was first found and most of it with good quality of life and pain free.

We surely do need a solution to our health care crisis but letting the people you brought us the DMV and Social Security offices isn’t the answer.

As far as universal care is concerned, I don’t think it will be more efficient than it is now. I get in to see my primary care physician the same day, sometimes the same hour that I call. That is efficient. I don’t want to wait forever to see a specialist if I have cancer, I could die before I ever get an appointment.

I have heard stories and seen documentaries on universal health care. Canadians actually come down to the US to be seen because it is faster! Where are we going to go when we can’t be seen? Do you think I want to see someone die just because we can’t get an office visit? I already live in an area where specialists are few and far between. When my DD had hip dysplasia when she was born, I had to drive 3 hours to see a specialist…there was no one where we are to see her. Luckily I only had to wait 2-3 weeks.

You never know what your insurance will cover until they don’t cover it. Even with regular insurance they say they will cover it but they don’t.

Like I said a friend paid 100% of her deductibles 2007 and 2008 and then some. She kept getting bills after bills and when she called she was told it wasn’t covered.

Most universal plans they see you that day. I believe you are being mislead about universal care. The issue isn’t with preventative care or needs. Typically people are seen faster under universal care because there are more primary care physicians.

However, specialists are no longer paid as much and thus there is less need. So the wait for specialists and surgeries, MRI, etc are longer.

Primary care needs are actually meet faster. In Canada they have these walk in clinics where you can see doctors faster than in the US. Instead of people going to the ER, they go to the urgent care walk-ins.

This is also true in asia and some European countries. In the US people go to the ER unnecessarily because they can’t see their primary care doctors. On savingsadvice a primary care doctor says he knows this is true but he already sees a TON of patients. But doctors don’t want to be primary care because they make so much less than specialist.

In the US the number of specialists by far outstrip PCP. And even moreso, I know doctors in residencies who switch after 1 year in PCP to specializations! They refuse to finish in PCP because it’s not prestigious, low paying, too much work! Literally in their own words.

In other countries they push more PCPs. Thus they have more preventative and primary care workers. In the US the specializations are more desirable and people go to PCP for 1 year and then switch into specialization, or they do a residency and a fellowship in a specialization! Eek.

Inefficient? Yes. Stupid? Yes. Crazy? Yes. Sad? Yes. But who can blame them when the average PCP is $90k and specialist makes $250k?

Now, My insurance would cover me if something were to happen. YOu are right, it would not cover it all. I have to pay the deductible and then it is 100% covered except for the copays and deductible.

David, you are obviously not who I am talking about, you saved money and had a backup for if something happens. Most people do not. And I don’t feel like my tax dollars should go to those who are not helping themselves.

I am not some horrible person who just doesn’t want to pay more in taxes, I help out plenty of people through other means such as donations. I just don’t feel like universal health care will be good for our country. Right now I can see our pediatriciain the day I call, with universal care, I’m afraid that I will have to wait days for my daughter to be seen. How will that help our country if we have long waits to even be seen by our doctors? I agree that the system needs changed, I just don’t agree that universal is the way to do it.

Heaven forbid you actually get sick and need help.